There is no KDE5

…and in retrospect, adding to the confusion, there is not even a KDE4. *cue puzzled faces*

Let me explain this. About 1.5 years ago, we’ve repositioned the brand “KDE” to reflect how our community is structured. In short, KDE is the community (unversioned :-)), the workspaces are called Plasma Desktop, Plasma Netbook, etc. Then we have the KDE development platform. In the future we will be referring to these as the KDE Frameworks, since that communicates more accurately the results of the ongoing process of modularisation. And then we have of course the KDE Applications, which all have their own names or brands.

In essence, this means there is no KDE 5, and there will never be. During the sprint here in Randa, we’ve spent a lot of thinking about the future of the KDE Frameworks, and we will be forthcoming with plans to further modularize these frameworks, which consist of what’s currently found in the kdelibs, kdesupport, kdepimlibs, kde-runtime and kdepim-runtime modules. We’re already working on turning our meeting notes, minutes and results into something digestable and understandable, so stay tuned.

22 Responses to “There is no KDE5”

  1. JanKusanagi says:

    So the name “KDE Frameworks” takes the place of “KDE Platform” or “KDE development platform” (as seen in the About dialogs)?

  2. Not sure it’s worth bothering, or fighting. People call it KDE4, and will call it KDE5. Just accept the brand recognition ;)
    And if there’s anything RMS has taught us, through the failure of his “GNU/Linux” crusade …

  3. LinuxLover says:

    Which is absolutely goofy, since KDE stands for “K Desktop Environment”. You people have simply confused EVERYONE. You really need to hire an expert to sort all of this out and make sense of it. KDE as a framework, while Plasma this and that doesn’t make sense. Encapsulated, it’s all the current version of KDE to all of its users and the mass public.

  4. john says:

    ” there is not even a KDE4.” um, so what happend to KDE SC 4? :o

  5. David Palacio says:

    As long as the KDE Software Compilation is released in one big bulk most news sites will call it KDE X.Y. With the incoming modularization efforts an initial release of the “KDE Frameworks” and a later of “Desktop applications” may be a good thing. More or less like Canonical does with multiple names for the same thing (K|X|L|Edu|etc)?buntu. This way the praise/critic should more fine grained. A “KDE Frameworks” release is also more attractive to developers currently thrown off by the “KDE Desktop” “bloated” nature.

  6. Dion says:

    Honestly, this would be the most inept management of a widely recognised brand. period.

    It was the K Desktop Environment known as KDE. Everyone who has used it will continue to think of it that way.

    Kubuntu is Ubuntu with the KDE. Not Ubuntu with the Plasma based KDE Framework or someother BS.

    KDE is/was the most widely used Linux Desktop Environment. All you have achieved is to confuse the fuck out of the average user – to no mesurable gain. Now it is very difficult to coherently describe any of the KDE components to a novice and how it should be compared to gnome.

    D.

  7. ervin says:

    @LinuxLover:
    Can you tell me what 3M stands for? Probably not… (Looking on the interwebs is cheating)

    This kind of things take time. Some people still have trouble with it, but my contact with the public is that some people are also fluent in this new world where KDE is the name of the community (and I’m talking about end-users).

  8. Philip says:

    I think that this is too much seen from the programmer’s point of view. But you have to think about the endproduct, and thus the end-users.
    Creating confusion does not help the greater cause. Why do that?

  9. sp_21 says:

    For me “KDE” will always be K Desktop Environment, and “KDE Community” will be KDE Community.

  10. Aaron Seigo says:

    I think what some people here are getting confused over is the difference between trying to get everyone in the world to use a certain verbage and deciding what we are going to use ourselves.

    It was difficult, bordering on impossible, to clearly communicate to people our developer story and that applications did not rely on the desktop environment running. We know this because of the constant (daily) questions about such things: “I would like to use $KDE_LIBRARY, but I don’t want a dependency on KDE” (where they meant the desktop) or “Does Krita run in GNOME?”

    The clarified branding, which was introduced 1.5 years ago and which we have stuck with, allow us to communicate each of these points with greater clarity. As ervin notes, we are seeing it working in practice. We have become increasingly consistent with the messaging and there were indeed some hiccups along the way; it is not easy to make such a shift in a completely open community where we operate on consensus and cooperation rather than dictation.

    As a side note, I’m disappointed in the level of discourse seen in some of these comments. One thing that makes these kinds of necessary changes harder than needed is the disrespectful and non-constructive way in which some people who have differing opinions and ideas decide to allow themselves to share their thoughts.

    • Thrash Dude says:

      “I would like to use $KDE_LIBRARY, but I don’t want a dependency on KDE”

      So now instead of stating, you need kdebase-runtime and kde-libs, you’ll now state 30 different intertwined packages that were split out. And of any of those 30 split packages, everyone will end up needing most all 30. So why the split at all? Need to be more Gnome like? Can we also expect conflicting non matching, non compatible version numbers as well?

      I know, I know — Let’s all fix what is not broken because we have nothing better to do with our time but make things more difficult for other people.

      That’s using the ‘ol noggin.

      As a side note, I’m disappointed in the level of disconnect between certain developers with the packagers, distro maintainers, and end users. When developers make it next to impossible for anyone to use their product, they’ve wasted their time. KDE, you’re wasting your time with this. Find something better to do. No need to re-invent the wheel here, it’s already round. Adding all this weight will only slow things down.

  11. foo says:

    Good luck with that. I will always call the software KDE.

    • sebas says:

      Thanks for the wishes, I will always call people like you lame anonymous trolls and move on with actually doing things, instead of thoughtless bitching. Your kind is just sad.

      • sims says:

        See, foo is not actually bitching. You are. In conversation, I will always refer to it as KDE. In fact, when people as me what OS I’m using, I don’t say Linux or BSD. I say KDE. Because that is more accurate. I’ve been using KDE since 1. I thought it was the coolest thing ever. I still think it’s cool. The only thing that is not cool is when the dev’s egos swell so large it actually affects the code. I know I’ve been guilty of this in the past. But honestly, it’s not cool.

  12. jikjau says:

    It is good that there is a distinction about separating K_application_name from KDE – since KDE is travelling the Gnome death road and meawhile you guys are making excellent progress towards letting everyone know that K_application_name programs run fine in Xfce while the Plasma dissipates into the nothingness of virtual hyperspace.

  13. Mark says:

    I love KDE SC, KDE plasma, KDE framework or wathever you want to call it. KDE just works!

  14. lefty.crupps says:

    KDE, what a great technology with a bunch of marketers doing everything they can to make using or discussing the software nearly impossible… Honestly, it was changed to KDE SC 4.x recently and now that isn’t accurate? Focus on the code please and leave the naming alone and it’ll do fine.

  15. Gabriel Gazzán says:

    I think KDE marketing would at some point have to admit, they’ve not made great choices in communicating their vision. Or perhaps, more importantly, their vision is not shared with the people actually using the product.

    I don’t know exactly which one is right, but ignoring the fact doesn’t seem to be a wise attitude either.

  16. sims says:

    Can’t you guys take a hint from Qt. Yes, Qt is pretty much a framework. It’s not like it was a framework from the beginning, but now it has database access components. Cool! But it’s still called Qt. I don’t think anyone except for Gnome n00bs thinks you need to have plasma loaded to run Kate. That is no excuse for renaming the universe. Though I do commend the KDE team for coming up with consistent accurate naming for themselves to use and perhaps for the media to use, but don’t think that the average user or even the advanced user is going to waste syllables to please you. It’s KDE. It’s dope. It’s tastes good. Your like Prince. Everyone will still call him Prince. Even though officially his name was unutterable. KDE’s name is not far behind. But us users will still call it KDE.

    At the end of the day, most people are still going to use the whole thing (KDE SC). Kate takes longer to load when the KDE libs are not already loaded. So I use Kate in the K Desktop Env. Pretty awesome huh? Nothing’s changed here. I sure hope I don’t see KDE 4.99999999999999999999999999999 just so we don’t have 5. LULZ!

    I think this all makes sense from a dev POV. Just don’t force it down users throats.

    • xapient says:

      well said!

      if someone asks me what desktop i am using i tend to say .. “plasma” and then quickly add “KDE” so at least someone would understand me… i consider myself as a power-user and i’m still confused.. so please stop fooling around with names

      …. for developers it’s is now the “kde framework” they can use to develop their apps and for users it’s the “kde software compliation” they can use for their “everyday work” – well… that’s oke.. leave it with that! (still everyone will shorten it a little bit and just say “KDE” like no one ever says gnu/linux)
      just my 2 cents….

      if there won’t KDE5 you’d still have to give plasma-desktop a number.. will there be a plasma5 ?

  17. xapient says:

    please don’t forget to develop great applications and desktop experiences with your framework beside making the framework better for developers… YOU are the developers.. concentrating too much on the framework in stead of the programs developed with it could let you fall behind! if there is just a kde framework and no kde software compliation the whole project will be going south :/

    anyway….
    thx very much for your work!

  18. eugeniak1 says:

    I’m not a programmer, I’m just “end-user” and I love Linux and KDE. I can it understand that “KDE Frameworks” sounds for programmers good and I have with it no problems – but with numeration! You have to take it in mind that “end-users” are very risk- and achievement dependent. They are happy and proud if they can upgrade KDE from 4.6.3.xxx1 to 4.6.3.xxx2. For all this people is it simplier to have KDE 5 (and it does not matter as “KDE Frameworks” or as “K Desktop Environment”), but without “5” confound you them. It is a psychlogical and marketing thing and there are no dependency with content. Please don’t make us unhappy, let the numbers be!